With new R12 no longer being manufactured, the market price soared to $100/pound. Yes, I don't trust the heater valve either. Typically 5 to 6 ounces of a/c oil is adequate but this may vary depending upon the car. I've done the FSM test and with 81F ambient, the vent should be 50F. Please enter a valid email address for yourself. This drop can affect energy consumption since the plant will operate for a longer period or a larger plant will have to be installed. . Also, it can be used with all types of compressors. Gnats & mosquitos will clog deep. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." Jun 17, 2011. Mine was 61, so the system is not working as it is supposed to. In addition, R134a refrigerants are not only used in auto air conditioners, they can be used in freezers, aerosol cans, and refrigerators. R134a has the chemical formula CF3CH2F and is known as tetrafluoroethane. If you have the work done, be sure you find a true "A/C" shop that can make up lines. With R134a you do not rely on the site glass. But, what is considered a good temperature differential across the condensor? -The amount of R-134a needed will typically be 80-90% of the R-12 charge. Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site. The general practice of charging the system with 15% less refrigerant adds to the thermal deficiency of R134a. Osuagwu Solomon is a certified mechanic with over a decade of experience in the mechanic garage, and he has over five years of experience in the writing industry. Paul:A 1983 240D should have a York compressor on an OEM system. If there is no pusher fan, and you have the room, put one in. A/C Expansion Valve Replacement Cost. Then again, there are two different expansion valves. _____ 2012 E350 2006 Callaway SC560 . GWP is a measurement of Greenhouse Gases and their effect on Global Warming. Inhalation of vapor: Inhaling a large amount of R134a vapor can lead to drowsiness, temporary nervous system depression, and lethargy. R-12 expansion valves can be re-used, but will not be as efficient as R-134a specific ones because of the slightly different pressure specs of R-12 vs. R-134a. Swapping the components isnt a herculean task, but recharging the AC is a challenge. Attach the R134a charge port adaptors, there are two types.. one of which you need to remove the old R12 valve cores. of coiled cap tube on VCR system with R134a. There are other refrigerants: some of which may work, some of which dont work, some of which will destroy your a/c system and some of which are dangerous. Or is there always room for improvement, the more the merrier. R12 is otherwise called dichlorodifluoromethane is a colorless gas (chlorofluorocarbon halomethane (CPC) that is used as an aerosol spray propellant and a refrigerant, and is soluble in organic solvents. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. It may take a couple of tries to get things really clean.The laser is usually close on clean surfaces, but I prefer a T/C. Then I'll put the ball valve in on the coolant and test it and see what we have. . Bottom line, R134a simply doesn't cool as well as R12. It is perhaps possible to locate a unit with a company that purchases close out or distressed merchandise. I'm having the same concern. How is the vent airflow?I would jumper the aux fan & check the performance. R134a refrigerant fittings are different size. With the A/c off hi and lo were both at 105psi. R134a. and feeds it through an expansion valve. For example, if your system originally had 36 ounces of R12 then you multiply that by .80 and you have 29 ounce of R134a. A. Pressure/temperature table for R12, R134a, and R513A is shown in Figure 1. . R-12 - yellow R-134a - light blue R-22 - green R-402A - light brown (sand) R-402B - olive R-404A - orange R-407C - medium brown R-410A - rose R-507 - teal J Originally Posted by goldNSX. In sum, R12 has done more bad than good. However, you can convert R12 to R134a by yourself, save money and keep all the tools purchased. R12 is heavier than R134a and has smaller molecules. Ask Our Pros-Owner Assistance - NO DIY advice will be given. 30 deg is pretty coldSystems generally run between 40 and 43 deg. leading to corrosion of expansion valves, capillary tube plugging, and compressor bearing . difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. R134a is the most widely accepted alternative automotive refrigerant used to replace R12. R134a Refrigerant Recharge Kit with BPV31 Bullet Piercing Valve and R134a Quick Coupler, R134a/R-12/R-22 Freon Refrigerant Hose Can Tap Kit for A/C System - Easy to use. The mechanical fan & clutch should be checked as well. Welcome to rxmechanic.com. The first vehicle that used the R1234yf refrigerant was the 2013 Cadillac XTS. maintain the A/C of older cars. R12 is CFC: Even though R12 is one of the most commonly used refrigerants, it is CFC. If you're getting a R134a compressor, might as well finish the job - replace the receiver/dryer, flush everything else, and convert to R134a anyhow. There are significant differences between R12, R134a, and R513A, which must be considered when handling, processing, applying, or retrofitting with these refrigerants. AFAIK, there is no clutch on the engine fan on the 240D. and recharged with mineral oil and 2.2 lbs R12. Also, they are mostly used in refrigeration and automotive air conditioning systems. It won't be optimal, though. The bad thing is I don't know what to do about it. Are you sure you have an R4? Components Coils, Heaters, Motors, etc. Large temperature difference between expansion valve inlet and outlet oReplace expansion valve Air . Therefore, the R12 refrigerant is illegal, and emitting it is illegal. I'm going to check the condensor is way clean too. There are two hoses listed, R-12 64-53-1-377-821 for $72.50, and R-134a 64-53-8-391-051 fro $262.50. But I don't want to waste your time. The expansion valve is designed so that the temperature of the refrigerant at the evaporator outlet must have 8 to 12F (4 to 7C) of superheat before more refrigerant is allowed to enter the evaporator. You can use this space to go into a little more detail about your company. First, differences in physical properties: 1, insoluble R12 compressor oil is used (to reduce the lubricant) 2, dissolved sealing materials are used (resulting in refrigerant leakage) 3, easy to damp (so easy to internal . The old compressor used R12 and the new unit will be R134a. Most of all the differences gravitate to longevity, functionality, and safety. R134a is NOT less efficient than R12 Actually R134a is more efficient. Replied by Rich928 on topic R12 or R134a. Hopefully after you have read this entire page you will have enough information to determine which type of refrigerant is best for you. There is only a temperature switch on these cars as far as I recall, and it just switches on the aux fan. R12 systems used mineral oil, but unfortunately mineral oil doesn't dissolve in R134a. Look at where the lines will end up. That's a lot isn't it? Can I use the one for the R-12? It has already been clearly stated that R12 is a chemical that damages the earths ozone layer and shouldnt be released into the environment no matter the circumstance. Besides R134a there are some other refrigerants that are approved to replace R12 and there is a long list of refrigerants that are not approved. They have no moving parts. Autor de l'entrada Per ; Data de l'entrada calexico west port of entry hours; 12 month libor rate 2021 a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve Edited: Tue July 17, 2007 at 3:25 AM by bohica2xo, I believe there is only one switch - the refrigerant switch. This leads me to labor over every small decision. This is a great space to write long text about your company and your services. This refers to BTU's (heat) moved per pound of refrigerant moved. R12 was once used in many air conditioning units as a refrigerant or cooling agent. 4.R404A R134a increased mass transfer resistance to reduce the transmission chamber heat coefficient, while R507 heat transfer coefficient is higher than R404A. So I probably put the highest suggested amount in to be safe. This is the part that controls the system pressures. The compressors used by refrigeration plants to compress gas require oil to help lubricate its moving parts. It can be used applications like walk-in coolers, food and dairy display cases, domestic refrigerators, and beverage dispensers and vending machines. Is checking the temperature of the in and out of the condensor not the easiest way to tell if it is doing a good job or not? The whole trick is to sit there in those steam boxes and not perspire, it's vulgar to perspire when driving on public roads.If you want esteem, drive an MB, if you want comfort with 60*F interiors in a 125*F environment, get a Caddy. Generally you follow the refrigerant flow moving from connection to connection, component to component, and you sniff the a/c vents to check for evaporator leaks as well. Add to cart. Thread starter goldNSX; Start date 1 August 2009; Tagged . BTW, I use a stick thermo in the vents and the laser on the condenser. Pound for pound R134a is a more efficient refrigerant than R12, however it runs at higher pressures in some aspects and therefore requires more effective condensing. Stability: RR12 doesnt disintegrate even under extreme operating conditions. With R-12, 30 is 28.4psi and 40 is 36.9psi, for a difference of 8.5psi. You can spend long evenings reading about the differences between the two refrigerants. It can be used applications like walk-in coolers, food and dairy display cases, domestic refrigerators, and beverage dispensers and vending machines. Best for varieties of operating conditions: Its boiling point is -21.6 Celsius. This refers to BTU's (heat) moved per pound of refrigerant moved. R134a was selected as a replacement refrigerant for R12 because R12 contains chlorine and has a major effect to ozone layer depletion. R134a and R12 are among the most popular types of refrigerants. Formula: (R12 Charge Specification x 0.9) - 0.25 lbs. Below are the major differences between R134a and R12: The chemical composition of R12 and R134a differ. Most vehicles manufactured before 1993 have the R12 A/C system. However, R12 refrigerants are still used as fire retardants in aircraft and submarines. According to Wikipedia, There is such a thing as "r132a" (1,1-Dichloro-2,2-Difluoroethane), however there is no indication of it being a commercially produced refrigerant. I recommend replacing the expansion valve when you do the swap. Can I just use an adapter and save $200? The cost of recharging the air conditioner is between $150 to $500. A discussion of the relationship between valve capacities and superheat set-tings can be found in Bulletin 10-9. And by matching the correct amount of R134a to use in a given vehicle, correcting the superheat of the expansion valve (if necessary), you can in some manner nearly balance or match the amount of heat drawn out by the evaporator and released by the condenser. We say generally because the vehicle manufacturer may have a formula already worked out for the R134a conversion process. Generally the system will be initially charged with approximately 80% to 85% of the original amount of R12, using R134a. Make sure to wear safety gloves, goggles, and shoes when theres a possibility of exposure to the chemical (R134a). 3) A/C Compressor Always On. Since then, the industry standard has been R134a, which is an efficient replacement. The substitute that we used for R-12 was the new HFC called R-134a. Even though their common major function is to cool the system, they have many differences. The approval is very legal one, governed by the U.S. EPA. If it splashes inside the eye, it could lead to a serious eye problem. Do I leave the orignal condensor in, etc?Thanks. In practice this means that the car can overheat and the aux fan will stay off! As per their results . Further production of R12 was banned in some developed countries by the Montreal Protocol because of its harsh effect on the ozone layer. I'll put the relay on for that. #4. and he synthesized R-134a in 1936, 5 years after R-12 was . ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. of refrigerant insulation tape. What effect would it have on performance, if any?At the moment, the ac is acting up - will work fine for about 15 minutes and then slowly the vent temperatures rise until the compressor switches off. Its chemical symbol is CCl2F2. B. Compared with the cost-performance ratio, R507 is 30-40% . bokoen1 hoi4 the great purge / meryl and maks dancing with the stars / difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Statisicaly your friend was lucky. The common problem when converting from R12 to R134a is lack of knowledge or equipment. Participate in over 40 different forums and search/browse from nearly 3 million posts. The #1 question asked by NEW MEMBERS. You can also check the Aux fan in your case. 05-25-2017 02:14 AM. But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. Why wait for 200f on the engine coolant to start the fan? ESP when a compressor has frozen. All fans must work at 100% of the OEM rating. This chart has a column of ambient (outside) air temperatures on one side and a corresponding range of high side pressures on the other side. Nice to use new gadgets! Remove the old mineral oil from the compressor by turning it upside down, side to side, and turn the front hub on the clutch assembly. The value of carbon dioxide is 1. Please enter a password for your user account. 5) A/C System Failure. and he synthesized R-134a in 1936, 5 years after R-12 was . The typical scenario here is when the car owner buys an inexpensive retro-fit kit from the local auto parts store. Therefore, its most suitable for both commercial and domestic environments. I'm curiousSo there is work to do, ie performance should be able to be improved. This is due to many facts: R134a refrigerant is about 10% less efficient in moving heat than R12! With tube & fin condensors in MVAC applications there is never "too much" airflow. I mean, really a lot. I cleaned the evap as best I could, if that is what you are getting at. "Howdy, Folks!" But with an R4, better too much than too little.3) A TXV optimized for 134a will be ok with R12.4) The airflow across the condensor is crucial to good performance. The next piece of equipment to track down leaks is a leak sniffer. how to get to disney springs from boardwalk / bb dakota plaid jacket canada / difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Its not that difficult but the procedures of evacuation, charging and testing should be done by a licensed a/c technician that is experienced with R134a and your particular car. But R22 is almost equally damaging. R12 and R22 are both now banned by the EPA in the United States. What is needed? Hence, the effect of R12 on global warming is up to 10,000 times higher than carbon dioxide. So if you car has a large amount of rubber hose, such as a 40 feet with the 911, then you will be re-charging the system often and that is expensive no matter which refrigerant you use. Any advice appreciated. The original expansion valves work very well with R134a. The ratings for evaporator temperatures 40F, 20F, -10F, -40F in the capacity tables are in accordance with ANSI/ARI = R134a Charge Level R12 Expansion Valve = 201 830 06 84 R134A Expansion Valve = 201 830 04 84 Is there a difference after all? 37 in 2005 tacoma, R134A. In cases such as this, the required capacity value of the expansion valve with R134a is reduced by 30% (correction factor 1.42). El maig de 2016, un grup damics van crear un lloc web deOne Piece amb lobjectiu doferir la srie doblada en catal de forma gratuta i crear una comunitat que inclogus informaci, notcies i ms. (On firewall where A/C lines go into cab.) This would be a custom install, there is no "drop-in" condensor upgrade for that car.Check for proper fan operation, and clean the air path on both the condensor & radiator. So if the TXV is OK, and the too much oil situation is not a big problem, then I wonder why the compressor is switching off after about 15 minutes of cooling? This implies that the discharge pressure of the compressor should be moderate so it can produce the refrigerants condensation in the condenser at the atmospheric temperature. What is a T/C?4. The name of the oil is Polyol Ester (POE). Safe but sorry! If you have a York, and it is equipped with service valves, you can check & adjust the oil level without discharging the system. The original CFC expansion valve used for R12 needs to be replaced with an HFC one for 134a to feed the evaporator correctly. We sometimes use a relay switched from the compressor clutch to run fans. One of the differences between auto air conditioners that have been redesigned from R12 to R134a is that the condensers have gone from serpentine to pseudo-parallel. I think so. Als nostres webs oferimOne Piece,Doctor Who,Torchwood, El Detectiu ConaniSlam Dunkdoblats en catal. If your car does not have a high pressure cut-out switch in the AC system then youll need to have one installed (call us if you need help). 2022 nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer, a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve, 2020 white paper of the church of pentecost, Chime Mobile Check Deposit Funds Availability, Why Does James Kill Donald In The Vanishing, nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer. At 40, it is 35psi, which is a difference of 8.9psi. At least you do not have 16 ounces in there ( yup seen it before).For now, straighten all of the fins that you can, clean the condensor well, and re-test with the aux fan running. We've updated our forums!Click here to visit the new forum, Year: 1991Make: Jaguar Model: XJ6Engine Size: 4.0. VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Thus, when the system is running, condensing the CO2 is not a problem. Note that passwords are case-sensitive. I remember I had the wrong seals and it leaked some oil, so I put some more in.Bohica - I tested the pressures. The only difference I can imagine would be the recharge connection. Additionally, R134a was introduced as a replacement for R22 and R12 in high and medium-temperature refrigeration systems like domestic and commercial chillers. R 134A is designed for the high demands of an automobile AC and cannot be used on refrigerators due to pressure differences. From memory, I put in at least 8 ounces of oil, probably around 10 ounces in there. PaulJerky King -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. R134a compressors are substituted as new to retrofit the R12 system compressor part numbers with different height sealing washers. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. The safe high side pressures are determined with a PT (pressures and temperatures) chart. The global warming potential measures the amount of heat trapped by any gas compared to the amount of heat trapped by the same amount of carbon dioxide. There are two hoses listed, R-12 64-53-1-377-821 for $72.50, and R-134a 64-53-8-391-051 fro $262.50. I think the way to go here is1. If you have a perfectly operating system using R12 you do not have to drop what you are doing and convert to R134a. But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. Recovery & flushing is the only way out of an oil overcharge in your vehicle.B. This means that it has a high potential of causing depletion to the ozone layer. In more serious, it could result in cardiac irregularities or death. a 50f delta across the condensor is good, but I suspect that is an idle reading. However, R134a is better than R12. 2001-2023 Griffiths Technical Inc. All Rights Reserved. I don't believe it is but I had a service guy tell me it needs to be done. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. If you have 10 ounces of oil in the system, that is contributing to the poor performance as well. This allows the refrigerant in the condenser to be void of oil particles. However, it was found to be a very bad gas for the environment. Is there a graph? Put a relay on the compressor clutch to the aux fan (I like that idea - makes a lot of sense)How does that sound? The difference between R12 and R134a TEV (exp valves) is primarily the 'superheat'. This is 11F off the FSM performance graph - vent should be around 50F. That is for the compressor, drier, expansion valve and condenser. -------------------------Just another brick in the wallHad a little mule I fed him castor oil and every time he jumped the fence he fertilized the soil, The older expansion valves were filled with the refrigerant they were used with, the replacement valves (today) are filled with a different chemical to work with both refrigerants..Hope this helps-------------------------ChickEmail: Chick---------------------------------------------Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose, I believe the optimum supercool setting will vary slightly between an expansion valve for an R12, as compared to R134a, system. Carefully study the chart and compare the following: To a large extent, the choice is up to you. Energy usage: R134a is less efficient in cooling compared to R12. It's best to determine on a case-by-case basis while monitoring system pressures and output air temperature. There is more to check.The evaporator must be clean as well as the condensor - was this a smoker's car?You should check the water control valve for the heater core. I've straightened the fans I can and sprayed simple green on it, let it soak then hosed it down well. The expansion valve(Tx) is in the car at the inlet line to the evaporator with compressors you best get advice from an ac specialist shop as the differences could be the gas that it pumps some systems use R12 and others use R134a or later gas yes R1234yf Freon gas can be replaced by R134a; the newer systems were designed with this in mind so no, there will be no damage to the compressor but some time in . I could easily be over at least 2 - 3 ounces over on the oil. A capacity curve is shown in figure 2 for relative capacity of R134a vs. R12 for evaporating temperatures from 0F to 50F. Related products. About four or five years ago, I guy with an MB came here with the same problem, that tread was over six pages long. Trinary Pressure Switch $ 39.99. You do not have to split up the 5-6 oz of oil and add it to each component, just simply put it all in the compressor as it will move throughout the whole system once the system is operational. Looks like a couple of things happening here1) 80's vintage Eurocars were not "meat lockers". The problem with using an approved alternative refrigerants other than R134a is that when the system is serviced it requires certain types of fittings, labels and dedicated equipment. How is 1234yf different from . Besides, R134a refrigerant was manufactured after R12 was banned to help reduce the harshness of the old chemical (R12) on the ozone layer. For example, at an evap temp of 30 (your daughter's system is probably running around 25-28 saturated in order to give a 32 duct temp), the pressure of R-134a is 26.1psi.
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