The straight grip stock, optional from 1935, was discontinued in the late 1950s. According to my source your Model 12 Winchester was made in 1924, so it is 89 years old. Results and Discussion The paired pattern percentages fired by the two duck guns with each of the five loads were not significantly different, judging by the overlapping standard deviations. Most sellers have no idea what they are selling. Ernie special order model 12's from Winchester to add his Dounut Vent Rib. 1935 3" magnum offerd, will convert all 12 gages if wanted to 3" magnums, the begining of the long forcing cone. For more information: www.p65warnings.ca.gov. 1 Winchester Model 70 Ultra Grade Featherweight 270 Win. Smith brand, by the A.H. Fox Company of Philadelphia, by Parker, and by Ithaca. I have several 2-pin guns. . The Pitt-man-Robertson Act of 1937 began an 11 percent excise tax on sporting arms and ammunition. The ducks shot by me in the accompanying photograph were taken with Skeet boring and trap loads of #7 1/2-shot. 2. His Super Fox 12 gauge magnum double averaged 83.7% (two-barrel average) of 1 3/8ounces of shot under the same conditions. It still is. Winchester designed the Model 42 to use the new shell and the combo went to market in 1932. Blue is good showing wear on high spots. L.O.P. Thanks for the reference. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. The gun weighed 8 1/2 pounds with its 32-inch Full choke barrel. The 30" heavy barrel is proof stamped "WINCHESTER TRADE MARK MADE IN THE U.S.A."; "-MODEL 12 - 12 GA. - FULL"; "WINCHESTER PROOF STEEL"; "FOR SUPER SPEED & SUPER - X 3 IN.". Westerns copper-plated shot, introduced about 1925, extended shotgun range even further. Clear (Winchester Wikipedia Page) 27 Item(s) Found Page 1 1. Advanced . Winchester cautiously claimed 70 to 75% pattern in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards.. Madis states Winchester spent a great deal of time and effort to develop better chokes. Furthermore, Winchester constantly experimented, searching for improvements in all chokes, even the old standby full choke. Winchester almost certainly would have perfected their Full-choke Model 12 duck gun to maximize patterns with #4 lead shot, the size most mentioned for long-range duck shooting in publications prior to the advent of non-toxic shot. Charles Askins was the leading expert on shotguns in the first half of the last century. would buy from again without hesitation, Smith & Wesson S&W Vintage Screwdriver 8 Row Knurled Handle used (#234907824646), Remington 700 stamped metal Magazine Follower .222 .223 .17 used nice (#334728927905). I sold 41 model 12's and 21's at a gun auction in Wichita Kansas to accommodate the move. I rebuilt all of the trigger assemble with all new parts just reusing the guard. The drop at heel was reduced from 2-1/2 to 2-3/8 inches in December 1938. Both guns were disassembled, cleaned and lightly oiled before testing. Thanks= Re-Up- forgot the offset marks on a factory ribbed gun- two of my 5 pre-1950 M12's have the factory solid rib, and the 1948 Pigeon Trap has the "Old Milled Rib" with the sandblast bulled top and the "Duck-Billed" rib extension. There are 16 pages of loads for various shell lengths, shot sizes (dust through buck, soft or chilled), five powders, five shell grades and 11 gauges. Very fine as professionally custom finished, showing 95% of the refurbished blue, with scattered rust spotting and handling marks. There was only one way to go after World War I: standardize shell lengths, discontinue bastard gauges and reduce the load options. Clear (Winchester Wikipedia Page) 22 Item(s) Found Page 1 1. Model 12 duck guns had the same six-shot capacity as the standard Model 12: one in the chamber, five in the magazine. For example, only about 300 Super Fox and 800 of the Ithaca Magnum 10 doubles went into hunters hands during the period. It is the skeet style of stock with a comb drop of 1 1/2 2 1/2 inches, and a 14-inch length, butt to trigger. I know the patent date for this rib was 1919. The solid rib gun shows carrying wear while the ventilated rib gun was refinished when the rib was installed. Here-tofore, you could only shoot this weight of shot in a 10-gauge double gun with 2 7/8-inch chambers, or the new Ithaca Magnum 10. Many online gun sales actually take away from your local Regards Chuck. FORE ARM HAS A PEICE OF WOOD MI, This is an all original 1962 made Winchester Model 12 in the harder to find 16 Gauge. He was the chief designer of the Model 21 double, John Olins favorite. Click here for more information. Model 12 Skeet Pump Shotgun. , Excellent Winchester Model 12 12 gauge Deluxe Skeet gun with factory issued Cutts Compensator. Auction Date: December 7, 2019 Estimated Price: $ 8,500 - $ 13,000 Price Realized: Details Exceptional and Documented Smoothbore Winchester Model 61 Slide Action "Rifle" with Simmons Vent Rib and Box Manufacturer: Winchester Model: 61 Type: Shotgun Gauge: 22 LR Shot Barrel: 24 inch vent rib Finish: blue Grip: Stock: walnut Item Views: 1599 I have a donut post trap gun but not a pigeon, had two 3 inch guns, one had donut post the other had a round post. A smothered roar from around the corner! The era of the double gun was ending as World War II approached. 1 9-16" DAC, 1 9-16" DAH, 14 1/2, Very good plus overall condition. Options for the Model 12 duck gun were reduced over the years, particularly following World War II. The Olins used the Western ammunition plant at East Alton, Illinois, as collateral for borrowing about four million in cash, no small feat in the fall of 1931. The earliest gun they found with a 2-pin rib has a serial number of 2037xx with a date of June 30th, 1919. during that time I handled many M-12's of varying configurations. Bore and action are excellent. customers to the absolute best of our abilities. Like new with a mark on the top of th, Winchester Model 21 Heavy Duck, 12ga, 30" barrels, solid rib, 3" mag. Most books say they did not. This shotg, FOR SALE IS A VERY NICE VINTAGE WINCHESTER MODEL 12, 12GA GA SHOTGUN. Possible the fore end has been either replaced or re done. Winchester undertook preparations for improvements in its firearms line following World War II. There are Simmons marketed guns with proper Winchester proof marks. Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. Blue Book on this fine collector 12 gauge is around $2,700! Featured Gun Classifieds Winchester Shotguns - Model 12, Winchester Model 12 - 20ga - 26 - Improved Cylinder- NIB - UNFIRED - SN: MT0162 - AS NEW with high figured wood - 2 3/4" Shells note: particles/dust can be seen in the photo, In very good condition. "SN:561491. As to price, it will also depend on gauge, barrel length, choke, barrel steel, wood type, pad vs. plate, etc. On the other hand, a duck caught in the middle of one of these dense-centered pattern sat 40 yards would receive a dozen or more pellets. My wife shot her share of ducks with a 20-gauge autoloader bored Improved Cylinder shooting one ounce of #7 1/2-shot. rifle w/ Jaeger Quick Detachable scope mount 3 Remington mod. The 12-gauge 3-inch magnum shotshell was developed to achieve this objective. the store. The new 1935-style buttstock featured a closer and fuller pistol grip. The Gun and the Times The Model 12 duck gun examined by the staff of the American Rifleman in 1936 was the earliest version. Deluxe checkered walnut, Its new in the original box with associate paperwork in wrapping paper.. has mi, Metal surfaces rate very good, handling marks to wood. Then people would choose a grade of model 12 and add or change things to ther hunting or shooting style. No Reserve. The Model 12 duck gun came to market at the all-time low point of duck populations in the United States. Westerns innovation was progressive-burning powder that deformed fewer shot during acceleration. $899.97. MAKE OFFER. Winchester Model 12 Pigeon 28 Gauge Single Family Owned Since 1967, Vent. Edwin Pugsley, in charge of Winchester at the time of receivership, is quoted in Williamsons book: The purchase of the company by the Olin interests brought a breath of life to the institution and brought to Winchester many things. Sales of 100,000 were recorded in the first two years of production. These are rare, a line can be seen along the dounut post on both sides. Gun #: 978404477 Seller: Sportsmans Legacy GA Sales: 739 $25,000.00 Shopping at Guns.com gives you the backing Model 12 was offered in several different styles: 1. You have entered an incorrect email address! For small bores, there are still new factory wood sets available. I kept the ones that were dearer to me so now they live in safes and I hate the safes. A great looking gun, in excellent condition. The first thing you notice when you pick up a duck gun is its weight and solid feel. Buckingham recorded his adventures in some of the best hunting stories ever written. Market hunting was legislated out of existence in the late teens. It is possible for the slide lock to fail to unlock the action during recoil. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked modified, and 14" LOP. Remington re-tooled from the M31 to the stamp, push and press 870 which sold for less than the M12. another state. I had a friend who is deceased now that did extensive research on the Model 12 2-pin rib. A Simmons Rib has been added to the barrel and the metal was refinished. . The surge of zooming pinions [wings]! I used to club trap targets with it. Harold Williamson, in his book Winchester, The Gun That Won the West, relates that the new management of Winchester embarked on a program that involved an extraordinary departure from the companys previous operations and the investment of borrowed capital in large amounts. Winchester struggled through a decade of inept product diversification that was terminated by the Great Depression. Stock is very fine, with light scratching, pressure dents and an attractive grain pattern. There is some difference in what they say but are good reference. Guns.com pledges to make gun buying easy, to support local gun stores, and to serve our Classic Browning Light Twelve Auto-5 Review: Busting Clays With the Old Humpback Shotgun. The finishes and rib are 100% Winchester and in great condi, Used Winchester Model 12 20 Gauge 26" barrel WS-1choked skeet Cutts compensator with restriction inserts good condition Buyer pays shipping Millers Gun Center Located in New, Winchester Model 12 pump action 12ga shotgun. The takedown joints are tight (See the instructions in Madis book if your Model 12 has a loose take-down joint). IC CHOKED MIROKU MADE. Thought behind it was that a taller rib on the bbl and a higher comb on the stock would help prevent "head lifting". Firearms dont get much more iconic than John Moses Brownings legendary Auto-5 semi-auto shotgun, affectionately called the Humpback for its distinctive drop at the rear of the receiver. Guns.com is built to be simple easily organized products, useful descriptions from experts, and support to guide you to the right choice. Could it be that the intended rough usage led to lack of care in the fitting of parts of early duck guns? Did they actually produce any in 1919 or did it take some time to get them out to the public after patent was approved? I wish I had them back! Will Winchester ever build the Model 12 again? Its been debated over the years if the solid rib model 12 barrel were silver brazed or fused with heat? As good as the Brownings are, Ill just keep my Model 12s from New Haven. the ventilated rib is by simmons gin works. Askins and Buckingham would sure be surprised at how far the 12 magnum has come. Enthusiastic hunters bought the new repeater. This combination, which averaged 83.6% at 40 yards, averaged 44.2% at 60 yards! w/ 22" barrel in original box w/ paperwork 1 of 1,000 #UG5 2 Paul Jaeger Jenkintown, PA. 30-06 cal. I know of a gun shop in Idaho that can take about any model 42 and put on round post ribs or solid ribs that are just like factory original with the proof marks. Alex, we don't have enough info to give you an informed opinion. The survival of both Western and Winchester now depended on Olin management. The price in 1963 was $122 compared to $109.50 for the standard Model 12. The help you need is to get a life. The barrels and receivers of Model 12 duck guns are made from Winchester Proof Steel. This steel was first used in the Model 21 double introduced in 1931. The Model 12 duck guns are still as suitable for waterfowl passes, fox trails or the habitat of the wary gobbler as they were when the duck hunters at Winchester surprised the market in 1935. Winchester - Model 12 Factory Try-Gun, 12ga, 30" Barrel. generous return policy, and handle everything you dont have to go back to Buy 1955 Winchester Model 12 20 GA Simmons Rib AA+ Wood: GunBroker is the largest seller of Pump Action Shotguns Shotguns Guns & Firearms All: 974012213. And make the 42 any grade you want and a self described winchester know it all couldn't tell the differance and may have bought one. And unlike our competitors, it extends beyond the buying process. , The Winchester Model 12 Y series was introduced in 1972 and made until about 1984. We limited our shooting to 25 yards or less and seldom missed. I pick them up through the interlacing covert, a bunch of suspicious mallards driving for safety. Original appearing donut post and round post vent rib Model 12s with no Simmons markings and proof marks in the proper places are generally thought by collectors to have been made to completion in the Winchester factory. Winchester Model 12 in 16 ga with a 26" barrel with a full choke. Writing in the March 1927 issue of the American Rifleman, Askins reports that his Remington Model 10 12-gauge pump averaged 89% of 1 1/4-ounces of shot in a 3-inch circle at 40 yards. A study of Michael McIntoshs book Best Guns indicates that a few thousand of the specialized waterfowl doubles of all brands were sold between 1921 and 1941. Ducks Unlimited was born in 1937 to aid in restoration of wetland breeding areas, primarily in Canada. His shotguns were undoubtedly the best long-range duck guns he found in extensive testing. The stock finish is original and excellent. The standard 12-gauge duck load in 1921 was a 2 3/4-inch shell holding 3 3/4-drams equivalent powder and 1 1/4-ounces of shot. Come join the discussion about targets, clays, hunting, gunsmithing, gear reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Winchester Model 12 Shotguns For Sale Shotgun Winchester Model 12. Has 30" barrel choked Full. Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. WINCHESTER MODEL 12 HEAVY DUCK GUN 30" SIMMONS VENT RIB 1953 PRE-64 RARE 12 GA. MAGNUM 3" EDITION PROOF MARKING - 12 GAUGE MAGNUM - 5 - 30 " Title. Loose bolts and excess head-space occur only after long service. No other pump shotgun feels like the duck gun. Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. His handload was a .heavy load of Herco powder and 2 ounces of shot, either 2s or 4s. Some patterns of #4 shot might let a duck escape if it were caught just inside the margin of the 30-inch circle. Checkered semi-fancy walnut pistol grip stock with extended forearm and a solid Winchester recoil pad. Full choke was the only standard boring available. John Olin initiated an analysis of Winchesters commercial line in 1942. Condition: excellent bright bore, 98% blue overall thinn, Winchester Model 12. The duck guns reputation was made with the one and five-eighths ounce load, the heaviest 12 magnum load from about 1935 to the mid-1950s. Charles Askins is the father of the late Colonel Charles Askins, Jr., of course. I RATE THE BLUING AT 98% AND THE WOOD AT 96+%. The buttstock was reshaped on Model 12 shotguns again in the mid-1950s. Buy a Winchester Model 12 12ga., 30-inch Full choke, Simmons ventilated rib; this gun was made in 1941 (se for sale by Vintage Sporting on GunsAmerica.com the best online marketplace for buying and selling semi auto pistols, firearms, accessories, and collectibles : 963027340 Emphasis was placed on loads of #4 shot because of its historical significance in waterfowl hunting and association with the long-range objectives of the Model 12 duck gun. 3-inch Super Twelve Shotshell My copy of Winchesters Catalog No. Winchester Model 12 28 Gauge (W9229) Price: $3,250.00 Item Number: W9229 Previously sold Winchester Model 12 28 Gauge shotgun. Another sign of an after factory rib were the numer of 30" Full field guns later ribbed either with Simmons or MoneyMaker ventilated ribs, but the top milled groove in the receiver was a dead-give-away as to that, and when the Model 12 ruled the ATA roost, I am sure many "newbies" bought those modified and restocked field guns and thought - "Wow- now I have a Model 12 Trap gun- look out Vandalia, here I come"--I have several post 1935 12 gauge Model 12 buttstocks and also 18 ring forearms in my "parts boxes, also older logo and non-logo repro 12 gauge black bakelite buttplates-the 16 and 20 and 28- all on the same size receiver, take the same stock configuration. Madis comments Fancy walnut was considered too fancy for the rough treatment often given a duck gun. Fancy walnut could be ordered and the few pidgeon-grade duck guns had fancy walnut. It has a Simmons rib, which is not out of the question for Winchester to have used according to Maddis in his book of the model 12's. The metal finish is superior to a field grade gun, higher polish and a matted receiver top and magazine tube. I don't believe it has been fired. The load averaged 67.5% (range 62-72.5%), in a 30-inch circle at 40 yards. Chamber marked 3", choke marked full, and 14 1/2" LOP. . $550 USD. However, Winchester and his succeeding family members successfully managed Winchester Repeating Arms Company from 1866 to 1919. Model 42s with later ribs than the donut post, with no Simmons markings or with Simmons markings, and with proof marks in the proper places are thought to have had their ribs installed at Simmons and sent back to Winchester for marketing or marketed at Simmons. Shooting the Model 12 Duck Gun I own two Model 12 duck guns. The $48 price tag was right. Factory original Model 12s with round post ribs were made by Winchester, not Simmons. Item. Winchester Model 12 Skeet Gun 12 gauge with 25" Solid Rib Barrel - 12 GA: 0 5d 7h 6m 17240921. I know of a gun shop in Idaho that can take about any model 42 and put on round post ribs or solid ribs that are just like factory original with the proof marks. winchester model 12 heavy duck gun 30" simmons vent rib 1953 pre-64 rare 12 ga. magnum 3" edition proof marking - 12 gauge magnum - 5 - 30 " Notes - Delivery *Estimated delivery dates include seller's handling time, origin ZIP Code, destination ZIP Code and time of acceptance and will depend on shipping service selected and receipt of cleared payment. I believe the blueing to be original. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked full, and 14" LOP. . Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. In fact, Madis states Any twelve gauge Model Twelve could be re-chambered and reworked to shoot three inch shells for a small additional charge[by Winchester], yet few guns were reworked in this way. I can find no external differences in receiver dimensions, other than the ejection port, between standard and magnum versions. WE DO NOT SHIP INTERNATIONALLY $40 Shipping. very accurate description and fast delivery, HOCH Reloading Single Cavity Mold c56 309170 .309 170gr nose pour NICE (#334593408927), Arrived quickly, well packaged, item is as described. Exc Orig Condition, Winchester Model 12 28-gauge, factory original, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 LIMITED EDITION 20GA. Wood is in very good condition showing very little handling or wear marks. Thomas C. Johnson came to Winchester in 1885 and remained a dedicated employee until his death in 1934. Also available initially were standard trap and special trap grades. Winchester - Model 12, Deluxe, Pump Action, RARE 28ga. Nash Buckingham was one of the great duck-hunting writers of the period. The earliest Simmons catalog I ever found was 1949 when Ernie began advertising his "Special vent rib" which was the "Dounut Post". It is general consensus that 10 patterns are required for an accurate appraisal of a given load and barrel combination. Patterns were fired from a benchrest, using American Target Company B21 silhouette targets measuring 35 by 45 inches. Winchester Model 12 12 ga 30 in Barrel 2 3/4" Full vent rib Barrel NICE! Their attitude is summed up by Elmer Keith in Shotguns by Keith: the satisfaction of seeing big ducks crumple at long range and come down and bounce on the ground or splash high in the water is the cream of shotgun shooting., It is my view that the long-range duck-hunting cult was a legacy from the days of market hunting. Charles Askins commented on the new Model 12 duck gun in the March 1936 issue of Outdoor Life: This should be the best long-range repeating shotgun now made or that has been made. No faint praise, but hardly a surprise. THE VENTILATED RIB IS BY SIMMONS GIN, 16ga, Full Choke, 26" barrel with a bright and shiny bore. Instead of buying a gun thats After college and had some $$$ I started collecting them. is 14" with pad. seller description. at the best online prices at eBay! the shot gun is in very good condition , with a 28 in ventilated rib barrel with full choke.
Can You Reverse On A Motorway In Romania,
Darrel Williams Parents,
Articles W