All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). This will help to extend its lifespan and make sure it looks its best for years to come. A 1/2-inch thick, 3 x 5 foot sheet weighs just 7-1/2 pounds, compared with 45 pounds for a similar size sheet of cement board. To put things into perspective, consider that a tile floor is made up of three layers: the subfloor, the underlayment, and the tile surface you walk on. Fixing that is not that easy though. Here are the fundamentals of tile installation over cement board. If you choose to use Aquadefense as a shower pan liner, be sure to continue it up the walls at least 6", tying into your waterproofing on the walls. #1 - Backer board has nothing to do with HD or any other big box. The difference between the phonemes /p/ and /b/ in Japanese. Cement board is a good, reliable backer board that works well on both floors and walls. Need help liner vs liquid membrane question. Your real issues are the lack of proper corners on this shower. It is designed to form a waterproof layer between cement board and tiles, helping create a watertight installation. It is important to seal any imperfections in the drywall to ensure a long-lasting installation and to minimize water infiltration. Learn about the options in exterior siding before you choose, Before you pick up a single tile, pull from these tips for expert results, Slip resistance, curves and even the mineral content of your water all affect which tile is best for your shower, We help a Houzz user ask all the right questions for designing a stylish, practical and safe shower bench, This isn't a light DIY project: You'll need heavy-duty tools and plenty of protection for your home and yourself, In steamy quarters, tile needs to stand up to all that water and vapor in style. I would fear leaks in all corners of this shower. MAPEI makes products for each step of the remodel process, giving you a single source solution, and only one phone number to call if you need assistance! Your air bubbles will travel along the valleys you've made, and it's way better if you only have to move them 20 inches to the nearest edge rather than all the way from the ceiling to the floor [Again, Mongo can, but he has mad skills].-Not paying attention to the principle of bedding top down, center out. Keep in mind that most tile setters err on the side of caution and brush a waterproofing membrane on top of cement board when it is in wet areas like showers or tub surrounds. Glass mat gypsum board is a better choice. The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece. The main issue caused by non-waterproof cement boards is the eventual warping and damage to the tiles, making it difficult and costly to fix without removing all the tile and starting over. RedGard On Hardibacker Board. . If cement board had been used, most likely the damage would have been much less that what I have to deal with now. @DMoore- OK, I agree that with redguard it would be redundant. Will be replacing tub shower combination with tiled shower in my home. When installing KERDI with unmodified thin-set mortar over particularly dry and porous substrates, it is recommended to wet the substrate first, in order to help prevent premature drying or skinning of the thin-set mortar. I guess I could save a few $ and laminate 1/4" drywall there instead.IOW, is hardi OK to level out the tub flange?Not that it matters, but the tile will be 3x6 carrara to the ceiling.Casey. Too little, and the kerdi will never show you gray, no matter how you sweat. It looks like you have Kerdi installed on the floor and not Kerdi Board. Look at it this way; Withe Kerdi, you either trust it or you don't. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? I think I'll try using the thinned mixture of Redgard and then try the Kerdi membrane again. This makes Kerdi Board suitable for a wide variety of interior applications, including kitchen countertops. Are there tables of wastage rates for different fruit and veg? Keep in mind, that, just to be safe, most professionals choose to install a waterproofing membrane on top of the cement board when installing in wet locations like tub surrounds or showers. Step 6: Choosing the Next Tile. Cement board is known to be very heavy and somewhat difficult to cut. It also helped me to work in smaller sheets. This will ensure that the coating sticks to the cement board. Yes, Hardie board needs to be waterproofed. I look at ceramic tile as a lifetime-of the house-product, so I use the best material for the job.I prefer to use cement board as the substrate with the Kerdi on top. Another advantage is that the polyisocyanurate core of foam boards is waterproof. Is it ok to fasten a shower surround to Schluter Kerdi curb? Cement board is readily available and relatively inexpensive (about $10 for a 3 x 5-ft. sheet). I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. Yes, you need waterproofing behind shower tile. 4. there should be a small gap between the backer board and the tub. Without an underlayment, even the slightest movement of the subfloor can result in cracking of the tile and crumbling of the grout lines. If you are good with a trowel and understand how to set up and use screeds as a guide for leveling or forming the mortar, pouring a traditional mortar bed may be a good alternative to tile backer board, especially on uneven or sloping floors. It is important to overlap the edge of the membrane so that it covers slightly more than half of the drywall behind it. If you are laying tile on floors that are wavy or out of level, self-leveling underlayment is a great solution. Actually if you watch any pros work (not on crappy shows) on TV you will see them use backer board 99% of the time. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. We tried adding water to the thinset, we tried . #3 This is a DIY site. We tried soaking the cement board and applying the kerdi in small sections. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. Schluter Kerdi-Shower-T/-TS/-TT 48 in. When installation is done properly, Kerdi membrane offers a waterproof barrier that can protect the plywood below from moisture. Your Get free, zero-commitment quotes from pro contractors near you. craft paper or plastic is great if the inspector wants it but it is (should be) doing nothing for a tub surround that has HB/redgard/thinset/tile. I have used kerdi, and I have applied it over cement board. Thanks. When screwed to the framing, thin strips of cement board fracture more easily than thin strips of fiber-cement. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. The product involves an extruded polystyrene foam panel, with specialized reinforcement materials on both sides. This is the traditional tile backer. Using Kolmogorov complexity to measure difficulty of problems? To line niche shelves, for instance. The tub flange can really be a pain in the butt when installing a tile tub surround. If there is no blocking behind the seam, i would just tape prior to installing the membrane, the thinset will fill the seam and embed the mesh. Slap it up comb it out, leave every ridge tall and perfect. Yes, you should prime drywall before installing KERDI in order to ensure proper adhesion and a successful installation. And second, since its foam, the board is super easy to cut with just a utility knife. There are numerous ways to do this. Significantly more time and effort is required to ensure a quality bond when using a modified thinset adhesive with KERDI, and for this reason, it is usually not recommended. The Kerdi is essentially replacing the backerboard. First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in a strong, dense bond coat. This creates a strong, waterproof tile backer that also functions as an uncoupling membrane. No, you do not need to install a vapor barrier, as Kerdi Board is the vapor barrier. 120 sq feet including the floor. Mike Holmes uses backer on his show. Caulk the gap. Find the website that's made specifically for you. Set ceramic and stone tile over the KERDI membrane with unmodified thin-set mortar, including large format tiles. Thanks to all for the feedback. I also used the Kerdi drain. We recommend our users to update the browser. Kerdi membrane can be used on cement board, drywall, and, as you may have guessed- greenboard. The cement board can also become weakened and start to flake away when it absorbs moisture, causing ugly spots and patches to start appearing on the wall. ), Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. About an argument in Famine, Affluence and Morality, Acidity of alcohols and basicity of amines. I don't want to use the Ditra membrane product but rather tiles directly over the cement boards. Step 3: Apply Thinset. I usually use Durock. It is important to waterproof Hardie board to make it more water-resistant, as well as to protect the materials from the elements. Applying a conventional cement backer board to such a structure is almost impossible. Why does the plumbing rough need to be moved? This liquid waterproofing solution does more than keep water away, it also promotes tile adhesion and prevents cracking. To ensure that the Kerdi is completely dry prior to tiling, inspect the inside of the membrane for any signs of moisture or condensation. Installing cement board involves placing the boards atop a layer of thinset adhesive, a process known as bedding. In . Why you use cement board? You'll know the RG is dry when it turns reallllly dark bright red as opposed to the pinkish color when applied. Sweeby-Can you clarify- I undestood that the thinset would tend to dry out from the thirsty hardi or skim over from the air; so how does booking the Kerdi help with the first? A mortar wall is better and can be customized easier. In general, the Schlter system is typically more expensive than a cement board, and some people may find this an attractive option for its long lasting, easy to maintain qualities. The main types of cement board you could encounter are Fibre Reinforced Cement (FRC) board and gypsum board. Maybe try another brand of thinset? One of the major benefits of opting for Kerdi Board over cement board is the ease of installation. Kerdi board is a kind of waterproofer because these kinds of boards are made of XPS foam. I imagine we could share some good stories. modified thin-set mortar is not recommended to set ceramic and stone tile, including large format tiles, over the KERDI membrane. We store towels, medicine, toiletry supplies, first-aid gear, massage devices, facial steamers, spare Painting your garage is a great way to improve the look of the space and make the walls easier to clean. On a vertical surface, very little moisture . If youre not careful, the boards can also leave behind abrasive sandy crumbs that can cause damage to your shower base or tub. You're correct if you use the shluter kerdi membrane you do not use a vapour barrier since it creates a sandwhich effect that doesn't allow the substrate . you should still water proof with a liquid membrane product like RedGuard. The niche' intermediate shelf isn't actually attached, to enable specific placement for each unique tiling application. On the 'rolling pin', it actually wasn't the kitchen kind, but rather a very heavy metal roller DH had from some sort of fabrication table. To line niche shelves, for instance. What do you mean it doesn't adhere? Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Do I have to use Kerdi tape with Ditra membrane? Kerdi is also used as shower lining, as required in IRC Section P2709.2 and IPC Section 417.5.2, over concrete, mortar, tile backerboard, expanded polystyrene foam board, prefabricated polystyrene shower trays, curb and ramp, gypsum board and masonry substrates." So, you can choose what board you want in your shower when using Kerdi. The major drawback to cement boards is their weight, as they are incredibly heavy and can be difficult to cut. What changes do you suggest to make Bathroom looks more updated? They can be installed on any type of support and can even be used to create partitions, with no structural support required. Cut the Kerdi membrane to size using a utility knife or scissors. First, you would waterproof with your favorite liquid waterproofing membrane of . Kerdi does admit that you can use cement board. rev2023.3.3.43278. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-leader-2','ezslot_21',165,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-leader-2-0');Once the seams are sealed, lay down a waterproof coating to the floor and walls of the shower space. The mortar does . Even the tiling subs have moved away from mortar walls because of the labor cost and lack of craftsmen in the industry. Seems like I've been using the full measure of water the bag calls for, plus about 10%.-50 lbs of thinset at a time is too much for an amatuer. Removing bathroom tile from cement backerboard, Transition from KERDI membrane backed, to not backed. Sledge hammers for the floor, that might take a bit of time. And how do you keep too much water from interfering with the adhesion in the second scenario?Thanks!! Any competent tile contractor would float the wall in mortar giving you a stronger, level, perfectly flat, and square surface to properly install tile. The site is called floorelf.com. Je peux rejeter les cookies non essentiels en cliquant sur Grer mes prfrences . Preparing drywall for KERDI membrane requires a few important steps to ensure a successful application. They are available in thicknesses of 3/16, 3/8, 1/2, 3/4, 1, 1-1/2, and 2 (5, 9, 12.5, 19, 25, 38, and 50 mm). Yes, Schluter membranes can go over cement board. Most of the entries in the NAME column of the output from lsof +D /tmp do not begin with /tmp. Allow the primer to dry completely before proceeding with the KERDI installation. I will say that to is easier to put the membrane over drywall than cement board. I have to redo my tub surround due to moisture leaks and failing grout. Plus, if you use the mold and moisture resistant drywall, it will be extra insurance against mold. The 30-in. It also features fleece webbing that allows for effective anchoring into thin-set mortar. Cementboard sufficient to a tub surround is dirt cheap .vs. Putting this stuff on walls is difficult and time . By the time you switch from the RG application to the Kerdi installation, it should be dry. . Kerdi membrane prevents water damage and mold development. To install Kerdi Membrane, start by applying Schulter ALL-SET mortar (or similar) to your cement board substrate using a 1/4" x 3/16" V-Notch Trowel. #4 You could be adding a good 1000 pounds to your install too. If you want added info there's an old Kerdi thread here. Ditra is manufactured in a 3'3 width and comes in various roll lengths (54sf, 150sf, and 323 sf). Then you can apply a thin layer of KERDI-FIX to the board, the membrane over top . :/. Furthermore, if another trade, such as the shower glass installers, makes a mistake then you'll be . Cement board is typically used in wet areas, such as bathrooms and areas with a lot of moisture, because it is waterproof and provides a level of protection from water damage and long-term moisture exposure. Just wondering how effective is the tile on kerdi membrane vs the traditional cement backboard where tiles are glued directly to the drywall? Answer (1 of 3): Schluter recommends applying Kerdi over drywall for walls, however, my local building code will not permit this practice - the local building code requires cement backer on the walls of a shower enclosure, therefore, I have done this successfully many times. We apply the thinset the recommended trowel, can't remember what size off the top of my head, in small sections and by the time my husband hands my the piece of membrane the thinset is not skinned over but certainly dry.
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